Monday, June 18, 2007
Sauced Goose and Gander or Living and Dying by the Sword
If the indictments against US operatives are thrown out by an Italian Constitutional Court, it'll be because those indictments were made based on evidence involving state secrets. So -- the use of secret evidence is good enough when going after Dreyfuss, er, people of faiths different than most Americans whom our President labels as terrorists, but when it's used against US operatives, it's another question entirely?
Or, given the old bromides to which the title alludes, will we see the US submitting a brief in the Italian court saying it's A-OK to use secret evidence?
Or, given the old bromides to which the title alludes, will we see the US submitting a brief in the Italian court saying it's A-OK to use secret evidence?
# posted by alberich @ 4:16 PM 
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RK,
I guess from the point of view of the "we're different from those Yurpeans" crowd, there is no inconsistency. In fact, there is another technical difference as well: in the US they want to make cases involving state secrets, but just not tell the defendent (the Dreyfuss case revisited*) ... I guess in Italy, the concern is more about the breaching of state secrets.
But still, I find it very odd that "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword", to use another one of my old bromides
* the Dreyfuss case is also an illustration of how deviations from due process not only cause innocent people to be placed in prison but make us less safe rather than more safe -- if the French would have let the "evidence" against Dreyfuss air in open proceedings and be challenged, they would have realized that much sooner that they had the wrong guy, and the right guys would have been placed in prison -- and kept from further harming the French -- that much sooner.
But from Vietnam to Devil's Island, er, Gitmo, the American right, for all their Francophobia, seems hell bent on repeating the mistakes of the French (maybe this relates directly, not ironically, to their Francophobia? "Those stupid French -- if we were the French, we would have done a better job"?). I guess though, the "dual-loyalty" crowd wants another Dreyfess -- "after all, look at how that case gave Zionism such a kick start ... perhaps if we repeat the process, it'll increase support for Israel?" I wouldn't put that kind of "reasoning" past the "you Jews who do not behave according to anti-Semitic stereotypes [dual loyalty] of how Jews behave are bad Jews" crowd.
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I guess from the point of view of the "we're different from those Yurpeans" crowd, there is no inconsistency. In fact, there is another technical difference as well: in the US they want to make cases involving state secrets, but just not tell the defendent (the Dreyfuss case revisited*) ... I guess in Italy, the concern is more about the breaching of state secrets.
But still, I find it very odd that "he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword", to use another one of my old bromides
* the Dreyfuss case is also an illustration of how deviations from due process not only cause innocent people to be placed in prison but make us less safe rather than more safe -- if the French would have let the "evidence" against Dreyfuss air in open proceedings and be challenged, they would have realized that much sooner that they had the wrong guy, and the right guys would have been placed in prison -- and kept from further harming the French -- that much sooner.
But from Vietnam to Devil's Island, er, Gitmo, the American right, for all their Francophobia, seems hell bent on repeating the mistakes of the French (maybe this relates directly, not ironically, to their Francophobia? "Those stupid French -- if we were the French, we would have done a better job"?). I guess though, the "dual-loyalty" crowd wants another Dreyfess -- "after all, look at how that case gave Zionism such a kick start ... perhaps if we repeat the process, it'll increase support for Israel?" I wouldn't put that kind of "reasoning" past the "you Jews who do not behave according to anti-Semitic stereotypes [dual loyalty] of how Jews behave are bad Jews" crowd.
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